Curse

Byron · Apr 28, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I'll call it the "Active smite" build, and I'm not sure if it's been done before. It's a hybrid scourge/necro degen pressure build with decent adrenaline spike capability.

Posted here:
http://gwshack.us/52f2c

Specific questions/comments for those interested:

Fierce blow seemed better than irresistable or mighty because of the amped damage under weakness and lower cost.

On the necro, I'm still debating between chilblains and desecrate. Desecrate seemed more managable at 15e instead of chilblains 25e.

Heal party on the WoH doesn't seem necessary, but I couldnt find a more useful skill in that slot.

Enchantment removal is weak without chilblains, but I wanted to make sure the team had full hex coverage. Does my mesmer need enchant removal?

The smiters will probably be very busy. Is the stress of that position unreasonable?

And, overall - is this build solid, realistic, fleixble, or none of the above?

DieInBasra · Apr 28, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

>_>

None of the Above, imo.

I'd drop the whole Smite/Prot. Those guys are going to be using all of their energy to do really insignificant damage, and only if they're protting the warriors. Don't understand the role that Suffering is going to play on the curse necro, 20 second recharge is a bit heavy. if you were really worried about enchantments, I'd put Rend on him, but Chilblian is really a waste of a slot.

Two spammable condition removals in a build that is soley about warrior spikes is a bit beyond me(one hex necro doesn't consitute degen). And Extinguish on the mesmer is so out of place, he only has one emanagment skill. Most Flashes are covered with Eneverating, most CripShot's with apply, so draw or martyr is a must. As well as that, with no DF or Boon, the healer is the ONLY healer.

I'd drop the necro for two Prodigy powered smiters, Bath's Aura, Judges, Draw,Heal other(to let the warriors power through to thier backlines), and go to a Boonprot and WoH backline. The Mesmer should pack Expel Hexes at most, Remove hex at least, and switch to the more standard edenial build of Surge/Burn/SoW/Drain/Shatter/Wrack. I think trying to use Zealots Fire without something like Air of Enchanment or Prod is a waste of time.

All imo, of course, if you'd like to point out how wrong I am, be my guest.

Divineshadows · Apr 28, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I am not sure there are enough hexes in this build to significantly overpower even a moderate amount of removal unless the opposing team is just dumb and lets you land a huge AoE suffering hex on them. Why you would consider chillbains over rend is also confusing.

Not sure that this build has enough healing power to survive the other team's damage given that your smite/prot monks have no divine favor. The two smiters certainly do not equal anywhere near the healing/protection that one monk can provide.

Overall, the build is very light on snares - ice prison, bull's strike, and devastating hammer.

Specific skills that make no sense to me:

active smite #2 has zealot's fire - lacks spammables to use with zealot's fire (mend condition only, but no cheap consistent follow up).

active smite #1 has scourge healing - not even seeing the degen in this build to make this skill worthwhile. Also, a lot of teams run two boon prots and scourge will have no effect on them.

air runner has heal other - are the opportunities to use this really going to be often enough to justify it over a self heal?

I think this build is just trying to do way too much. If you are going to run smite and hexes, then I do not see how you can have room for two warriors (much less two smiters).

Byron · Apr 29, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Thanks for the relpies - quite helpful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Die in Basra

Those guys are going to be using all of their energy to do really insignificant damage, and only if they're protting the warriors.

Well, protting the warriors wasn't the thing I had in mind when building in zealot's fire. Consistent prot use means that the damage will hit attacking warriors as you throw the prot on. With zealot's, a typical prot cycle of guardian and mend condition turns into an 80-damage hit against an attacking warrior, and all the better if that warrior is under frenzy. This seems like something that will happen very often, since warriors need to be in your face to attack you. The idea was another dimension of damage and frenzy control. But I've never tried this type of build - it just seemed like a good idea, so how it plays out in practice is beyond me.

Quote:

Don't understand the role that Suffering is going to play on the curse necro, 20 second recharge is a bit heavy.

Seems like the most effective way to get a bunch of degens out quickly. I've seen the other options, such as life siphon, but I decided on curses. It's a decision I'm already beginning to second-guess.

Quote:

Two spammable condition removals in a build that is soley about warrior spikes is a bit beyond me.

I realize it is redundant, but in splitting situations I think it would be vital.

Quote:

And Extinguish on the mesmer is so out of place, he only has one emanagment skill.

I placed it there with the idea that it would only be used in disease or poison situations. I would have rather had it placed on the E/Mo, but there are other necessary skills I couldn't remove.

Quote:

Most Flashes are covered with Eneverating, most CripShot's with apply, so draw or martyr is a must.

This is a good point, and something I considered when deciding against draw conditions. The two spammable condition removals come into play in such a situation, but that is much less effective. I realy want this build to be able to split, but it doesn't want to work.

Quote:

I think trying to use Zealots Fire without something like Air of Enchanment or Prod is a waste of time.

Well, it was never my intention to abuse it. Likely it will get drained anyway, so protection is the primary role of the "Active smite" slots. Zealot's fire and smite hex are meant to put pressure on multiple targets

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Not sure that this build has enough healing power to survive the other team's damage given that your smite/prot monks have no divine favor.

Yes this is true. Probably the best reason I included blood ritual. I had considered swapping one of the smiters to a healer build, but it was too weak with 16 in smites and no WoH capability. So I decided to plop heal other on the E/Mo, who could help out in case the healer is stressed hard. I may have to compensate in that department, as I thought this could be a problem as well.

Quote:

active smite #2 has zealot's fire - lacks spammables to use with zealot's fire

A good point. I originally had thought that it would have some value since the smiter would be keeping judge's insght up on the warriors, but seeing as that won't likely do much, I may have to reconsider that entire slot.

Quote:

active smite #1 has scourge healing - not even seeing the degen in this build to make this skill worthwhile

The idea of scourge healing was always to prevent heal parties form happening. Since the degen isn't large at all, a heal party could effectively cancel it out. Even if the scourge hex can only be kept on two enemies at a time, it will significantly damage any heal parties. Kept on 3 or more, it would prevent heal parties. Given the presence of lots of small hexes in this build, I think scourge would have trouble being consistently removed. I think it's fundamental to the strength of the build, but I will consider the relative lack of hexes and degen.

Quote:

air runner has heal other - are the opportunities to use this really going to be often enough to justify it over a self heal?

In situations where a split is required or the WoH is over-stressed, I think it is a necessary supplement, especially considered it can be powered by prodigy. If the build stays the same way it is now, that heal other is necessary.

Quote:

If you are going to run smite and hexes, then I do not see how you can have room for two warriors

I always wanted the capability of an effective and reliable spike to happen. Relying on degen pressure alone isn't likely going to work, IMO. It could be very possible to run an illusion mesmer in lieux of the hammer warrior, and that would solve the degen problem and the enchantment problem, though prevent any effective spikes. I'll see how that adjustment plays out, if at all.

I'll likely post a revised build sometime soon. Thanks again.

DieInBasra · Apr 29, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

I'd just like to point out Zealot's Fire deals fire damage, not holy, so it isn't armour ignoring, so there's no way you'll be hitting 80's on warriors, more like 50's.

Byron · Apr 29, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

I'd just like to point out Zealot's Fire deals fire damage, not holy

Nuts.

NeitNart · May 01, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

i dont know if air of enchantment was mentioned, but use that

Air Of Enchantment

rot
for 5-9 seconds enchantments casted on target other ally cost 5 less energy
5 energy 1/4 seconds cast and 5 seconds recharge

The Smiters should use:

Zealots Fire
Air of Enchantment
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Balthazaars spirit
Smite Hex
aegis
res signet